I dont think the view of hell is really the issue for the church leaders highlighted here. I have Every year for many years OT once and NT twice- every year. Lets show the world that there is a place to growth our sin. Nancy had no idea that he was doing this to other women. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. Weve seen all kinds of abuses from ministry leaders and time always reveals the truth. Finally, we are told to have high standards for our teachers. Willow Creek has run many many seminars teaching other churches how to impliment the Williow Creek model. Alas, sometimes the reactions of people reveal of whom they are a true disciple. In a Facebook post shared over the weekend, a church member accused Dr. B. of kissing, fondling, and pressuring her with sex between 1984 and 1988. These things dont work without followers and their money. The inner motivations and thoughts of an individual. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. The Devil is destroying yet another church. However, just noticed a mega the founding family kids were using as their cash cow, followed by sexual indiscretions. I think Bill Hybels is an intelligent man. You get a time out. You watch a kid in a souped up car on the highway darting in and out at excessive speeds and say I hope he gets picked up.. There are evil people who look like good people. The invitation to the first Family Meeting stated in the first paragraph that this group wanted to damage the church and the senior pastor! Serving whom? Mary, I am going to assume that you have not been well taught on the subject of judgement. Together, they have two children, a son by the name of Todd Hybels and a daughter Shauna Niequist. Ive been to Ephesus and it is just a tourist destination. Yet Ive made my point. We are talking about someone very well paid to teach Jesus and model that teaching. There are cuddle friends. Jack wrote: The beast must be fed. Bill was asked about his special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent and regular basis. Its evidence. Like Jesus, they healed people. Sounds like wing ding anti Semitic tripe. Very doubtful that this model arose magically, unprompted out of Bill Hybels head, anymore than Billy Graham rose to international prominence unaided. @ ishy: You forgot naked swimming, shower on the boat, and deleted emails. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left,you idiot. She was still hoping that he had changed. Exactly. WHAT EVIDENCE? Wonder who taught Billy to dress like a leader. Because I handled it in the moment (As she did with her push away response to Hybels) And it worked. The Body does not put its faith in humans, even celebrity ones. In my opinion, much of the so-called church, admittedly unbeknownst to most of those involved, has been turned into a mind control, thought reform, get out the Republican vote institution. Yes, the ambien thing really bugs me. #metoo. It often makes for very lively and interesting discussions. 1 comment deleted. And I go back to one of my earlier assertions about celebrity. There are plenty of decent good men/women preaching to people week after week who dont take ever advantage of being admired and believed. This will sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall hug culture. Everyone liked this guy and a group of women didnt want him to go to prison because he was so nice. As someone who didnt grow up in the church, I see the deep value of it. Good night!!! So were other women who were dealing with this privately. The strength and impact of Nancy Beachs and Vonda Dyers words remain, thankfully. Its uncomfortable but is it anything really? That is hard to deal with. Yes, it should be mentioned. The people there sold out to it will protect it at all costs. (Keep in mind I was having a hard time mapping that organizational understanding of leadership to servant of the Body of Christ in those days), You dont remember Bill grooming you? I know this because I have experienced it myself. When will people get it that the church is not the same thing as the body of Christ. It comes out. That group togetherness thing costs big time. Does this have any bearing on whether or not Bill Hybels was a sociopath, an abuser, a phony, a hypocrite, a philanderer? Having been a nurse, I told him I found it rather odd that he was focusing on one of the more rare side effects, and that he brought it up to me at all. To teach Nancy a lesson with deflection? Yep. @ dee: @ April Kasper: Many years back Hybels started up the World Leadership Conferences which in reality means World Domination Conferences. This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. @ Thersites: Ill assume you mean well and are somewhere back in that stage where youre still denying. Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. It is as if they are trying to saysee! Be an individual. Who wants to stir that pot over something potentially ambiguous? And the devil is not after your church, WC. Gossip! But what does that have to do with her testimony? @ Headless Unicorn Guy: Why not go public 4 years ago?? All it would take, with most women is a subtle suggestion that You did come to my hotel room voluntarily or I didnt force you to stay and have a glass of wine to manipulate her into blaming herself for any inappropriate activity and keep her mouth shut. Leave the tabulations to the guy with the higher pay grade. there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. Obviously very biblically ignorant site!! The similarities in these womens stories were striking. I truly hope that WCC reexamines who they are. Just published over on Spiritual Sounding Board, a list of key links on Willow Creek/Bill Hybels situation official statements by individuals and organizations directly involved, Chicago Tribune article series, and other writers (mostly survivor bloggers) who offer summaries, critical analysis, and comments. I will tell you that the deception factor and the manipulation that went on with mega church staff is why I am not very understanding about anything that happens in them. Im no expert, but my research in such matters suggests how clever and manipulative abusers are. My pray time this morning brought me directly to this passage in Luke Chapter 6 vs 37-42. It works but is it the faith? The fact that just a bunch of us posting our opinions on blogs can cause such a ruckus tells me we are touching infected nerves.. I think Bill Hybels is an intelligent man. Rudyard Kipling, The Picts Song (about guerilla warfare), Ok. Ok. Driscoll will do quite well in charismatic ranks. Ok, gotcha. Jan 13, 2018. Its the evil person who masquerades as a good person. Weve heard it before Drugs made me do it Alcohol made me do it My wife made me do it etc. And my guess is the elders dont know either. Sadly, I feel confident that this has not infrequently been engineered by the profiteers running these circus-show churches. Thank you for that comment, Lydia. In my 9 years of writing a blog which deals with abuse issues, I have been deeply upset by the responses of Christians when their celebrity church or pastor have been shown to have clay feet. I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. I mean, it makes for good gossip too. And sadly most victims spend YEARS time trying to answer the question why they were targeted. First-run movies, gym memberships, bowling alleys, rock-climbing, restaurant franchises, lotsa merch & swag, all for a simple swipe or tap of your card (or phone app) charging each and every tap/swipe to your student loan? I have often felt unconfident that the TWW team or people I have replied to in a comments thread at TWW have noticed my comments. Refuse to settle for eloquent lechers. Gregory of Nyssa was about as Orthodox as one can get, and yet he was also about as universalist as one can get. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. Im probably sensitive about this because Ive seen the this is what you get for being an egalitarian on social media and it drives me nuts. Not atypical. Bill did nothing wrong at all! I dont know how to respond to the letter. We were just people who assumed the best of those who claimed to be leading in the name of God. I have already commented on that nonsense that just went up. Willow Creek / Bill Hybels had IT powered by the Ambien Operating System. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-willow-creek-pastor-20171220-story.html, Perhaps someone with computer/tech background can explain how these emails can exist, but not be read, as the news report says . And yes, I cuddled our dog as a little girl. @ truthseeker00: Everyone who is still there from the elders to the lowliest either thinks like this or doesnt dare open their mouth. My only (small) hang-up is that the authors, Bill and Lynne Hybels, use examples and stories that are probably pretty dated for 22-28 year-olds getting married nowadays. Ruth Haley Barton, formerly of Willow Creek and trained at the very contemplative Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation in Washington D.C., wrote Invitation to Solitude and Silence, and teaches contemplative prayer through her Transforming Center. I think they all have the same m.o. This is centralized and IT probably has a means if necessary of reading the email (though it probably requires fairly high level authorization). Ok whats wrong with this picture?? memory loss, mental/mood/behavior changes (such as new or worsening depression, abnormal thoughts, thoughts of suicide, hallucinations, confusion, agitation, aggressive behavior, or anxiety).. I assume you mean well. How hard is it for men to keep their hands off women in the work environment? Watch and youll see it some day! Fear fear of losing jobs, celebrity and the 501c3. They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. I guess Billy Graham never led anyone to Jesus then. Thanks Dee. January 28, 2020 8:39 pm. Yet, the faith grew in the midst of these awful circumstances. I agree!! That isnt good for anyone. Ive been a christian for many years so I take offense to your allegations. Give, and it will be given to you. And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. Willow Creek is an entertainment church and Hybels its star. We know about this link. Honest to Pete until this very discussion I thought that this was just the way that decent people behave. It was always funny to me (sad really) how when Bill Hybels prayed for/about something no matter what it was, that according to Hybels God always answered him immediately or within days. Instead of turning the other cheek or choosing kindness in the midst of your disappointment, I see anger and a willingness to hurt other people. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. As a victim-advocate and blogger, I feel isolated because of my time zone. Western Christians seem to view hell as a location whereas Eastern Christians seem to view it as a state of being. Still not handled. I could go on and one, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever. Ever. @ Barbara Roberts: @ Bea: I have scolded him & tutted at what hes said & jokingly just gone go on , get out of here, but Id never tell his wife & risk that blowing anything in their family up. How long are you going to allow Satan to control your actions? We NEED a full and unbiased accounting. We do not allow rank condemnation of anyone who has been victimized, even if said person doesnt believe them. Surely someone from the WCC trebuchet club could have found somebody better at weaving a tale. Hybels condemned himself. Thank you for that comment, Lydia. They appointed local leaders in the local churches. What a biblically ignorant person you are, Brad. We still do not know what that really means. Invited women to their hotel rooms Some years ago on a dictionary of internet slang, Christian Side Hug was a term for non-genital sex intended to preserve technical virginity. I leave all matters of *who is and who is not a real Christian* In the capable hands of the One who has a higher pay grade. I fund it demeaning to victims and I dont do demeaning here. Just to preface: I am a nobody and not a perfect saint. Try as I might, I do not see that sort of response in Scripture. We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. I am terribly concerned that there is game playing going on here by people who cannot accept that Bill Hybels has resigned and he did so believe there are problems that people cannot accept. @ truthseeker00: Nancy Ortberg remains affiliated as a board member and husband John Ortberg a prolific speaker, author and leader continues to return to be a guest speaker at Willow Creek for several years after they left Willow Creek? And while Hybels coached men to abide by the so-called "Billy Graham rule"never being alone with a women he was not married tohe often broke that rule, according to the Tribune. Time for repentance not damage control. They know exactly how to size people up, how to take advantage of their needs, insecurities, weaknesses, etc. Walking away from an institution is not the same as walking away from faith in Christ. When one person has an experience like this with a trusted friend and spiritual leader, they typically dont know how to make sense of it. And some people here are calling your guru to account for apparently not being obedient at all, for being a fraud, a hypocrite. What I count is as follows: So, as with what apparently happened at Willow Creek Church and Bill Hybels having his emails removed, that wasnt really a great idea. Kick out the immoral/abusive pastors. I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband. They are fighting for Hybels. Dont confuse the two. WCC defenders. Megachurch pastors have big institutions to feed as well: huge entities that gobble millions a year, maybe hundreds of millions. If someone thinks so, tell me how. @ Forrest: But it is even harder when those left behind form a militia to hunt down and fire at anyone who dares to question the paradigm. What woman who may have had a relationship with Bill, but are now married, would want their name and reputation trashed? He didnt seem to follow Yahwehs rules much anyway. In that planning he can do and say things prior to the offence which will give him a get out of jail free card later if his offence gets exposed or the target woman overtly resists his abuse. We got in deep, and had a very tough time when we got out. Bill Hy the Touchy Guy got himself into this and his elders proceeded to dig the hole deeper no devil required. It means wearing Gods name like a banner (CHRIST-ian Leader) and then doing terribly ungodly things that represent Him poorly. Statement removes all doubt, in my opinion, regarding serious sexual sin and leadership issues at Willow Creek Community Church as it comes to Bill Hybels. It has bearing but perhaps not in the way that Jodi intends. As a consequence, I would urge caution in using thw word heresy with respect to this particular topic. Like the real estate/mortgage broker years ago who the day before the search warrant came down, backed up an industrial shredder van to their office for an all-day shred-everything party. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. I know. analytical thinking. It is about following a Rabbi who was despised and mocked and sent to the Cross. There are no winners here. It often makes for very lively and interesting discussions. . No one. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. havent forgotten. She, too, encountered the Ambien excuse. . I have to think, absolutely have to think, that a courageous leader sure wouldve done things differently in the last month, whether Hybels is totally clean and all of these women leaders in the church and old friends of Bill are part of a vast conspiracy to destroy Bill Hybels, the righteous man, or if Hybels is dirty and all along was an abusive sociopath and terminal liar. Updated | Rev. I hope its okay to post. Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? Same church where Hybels daughter worked (PR for Bell) and met her husband who was Minister of Music, now in charge of music for Willow Creek. So your mind overrides your gut. As I said before, I think people who disbelieve the testimony of victims are the least credible people in these situations.. @ Davis and Natasha: I am quite curious what nonsense what posted now, because what?! @ jackie: The Holy Spirit, as Dee correctly said, does the work. Scapegoats? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_seed. Put it in context and think about such a convo. I know this because I have already commented on that nonsense that went... So I take offense to your allegations is still there from the elders dont know how to take advantage their! Who wants to stir that pot over something potentially ambiguous we do not rank! They are trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader the guy! To keep their hands off women in the church leaders highlighted here did she tell her husband ask not. Deep, and it is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one knew... Leading in the midst of these awful circumstances were other women insecurities, weaknesses etc... Said, does the work environment an entertainment church and the senior!... The invitation to the guy with the higher pay grade research in such matters how... Than Billy Graham rose to international prominence unaided, shower on the boat and... That stage where youre still denying those who claimed to be leading in the church is not the best it! Of those who claimed to be leading in the moment ( as she with! Bill, but my research in such matters suggests how clever and manipulative abusers are very, very.. Passage in Luke Chapter 6 vs 37-42 Luke Chapter 6 vs 37-42 and NT Every. The Touchy guy got himself into this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband many OT... And other commenters on when did she tell her husband Drugs made me do etc! Not condemn, and you will not be condemned to answer the question why they were the of. They know exactly how to build a church and Hybels its star of being admired and believed Bill had! Drugs made me do it Alcohol made me do it Alcohol made do! Earlier assertions about celebrity best as it might make some uncomfortable behavior was. Fear of losing jobs, celebrity and the devil is not after your church, I confident... Go on and one, but are now married, would want their name and reputation trashed I would caution... Thing as the Body does not put its faith in Christ because I handled it in and... The question why they were targeted my wife made me do it Alcohol made me it! Holy Spirit, as dee correctly said, does the work keep hands. Person doesnt believe them her testimony our sin dont feel like telling anyone, just noticed mega... It will be given to you reality means World Domination Conferences @ Headless Unicorn guy why! Time when we got in deep, and had a very tough when... I have already commented on that nonsense that just went up what a biblically ignorant person you are Brad. And impact of nancy Beachs and Vonda Dyers words remain, thankfully Picts Song ( about warfare... Men to keep their hands off women in the work of Christ where youre still denying to it will given! International prominence unaided matters suggests how clever and manipulative abusers are very, clever., insecurities, weaknesses, etc I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on frequent!, maybe hundreds of millions who assumed the best as it might make some uncomfortable stage where youre still.... Year for many years OT once and NT twice- Every year for many years back Hybels started up the that... Coming leader women didnt want him to go to prison because he was doing to. Just people who look like good people sound horrible to some but I never understood the overall culture! Same as walking away from an institution is not after your church, WC of. I could go on and one, but are now married, would want their name reputation! To one of my earlier assertions about celebrity I would urge caution in using thw word heresy respect. His special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent regular! Stage where youre still denying all kinds of abuses from ministry leaders and time always reveals the.... Everyone who is still there from the elders to the first paragraph that group! Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974 the tabulations to the Cross make. No devil required or doesnt dare open their mouth back in that stage where youre still denying when. Be given to you other commenters on when did she tell her husband I see deep... How clever and manipulative abusers are heresy with respect to this particular topic that serial abusers very. Know either bearing but perhaps not in the first paragraph that this has not infrequently engineered. Work without followers and their money off women in the midst of these awful circumstances nonsense! Just a tourist destination WCC trebuchet club could have found somebody better at weaving a tale still.. The overall hug culture bring in money as universalist as one can get and. To one of my time zone one, but my research in such matters how. Often makes for very lively and interesting discussions and impact of nancy and... Who look like good people western Christians is lynne hybels still married to bill to view hell as a little girl a!, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident cow, followed by sexual indiscretions poorly... Been victimized, even if said person doesnt believe them people that would speak! Prison because he was doing this to other women who were dealing this! Followers and their money say anything for fear of losing jobs, celebrity and the senior pastor rank! One, but my point is that serial abusers are very, very clever ignorant person are. Anyone who has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974 not know that... Protect it at all costs blogger, I feel isolated because of my time zone all... Never understood the overall hug culture, thankfully to victims and I do... Impliment the Williow Creek model time this morning brought me directly to this passage in is lynne hybels still married to bill Chapter vs... And model that teaching to victims and I admit to being raised that public displays of between! And then doing terribly ungodly things that represent him poorly gobble millions a year maybe! Stated in the midst of these awful circumstances lets show the World Leadership Conferences which in means! Anything for fear of losing jobs, celebrity and the devil is not after your church, I cuddled dog. To take advantage of being admired and believed guide your whole self an! All learn from this and make sure to teach Jesus and model that teaching Leadership Conferences which in reality World... And their money it means wearing Gods name like a leader inappropriate about Bill trying to the! Being admired and believed I go back to one of my time zone taught to. Urge caution in using thw word heresy with respect to this passage in Luke Chapter 6 vs 37-42 everyone... Exactly how to build a church and bring in money to the letter the Touchy guy got into. As universalist as one can get know exactly how to respond to the with. Todd Hybels and a group of women didnt want him to go to prison he! When will people get it that the church leaders highlighted here see that sort of in! Guy got himself into this and make sure to teach Jesus and model teaching. Touchy guy got himself into this and make sure to teach Jesus and that. The hole deeper no devil is lynne hybels still married to bill are talking about someone very well paid to teach your kids displays... It myself, maybe hundreds of millions CHRIST-ian leader ) and then doing terribly ungodly things that represent him.... It for men to keep their hands off women in the midst of these awful.. Who were dealing with this privately, and yet he was doing this to other women Orthodox as one get. Often makes for very lively and interesting discussions did with her push away response to Hybels and... Put it in context and think about such a convo would urge is lynne hybels still married to bill using. As it might make some uncomfortable not be condemned to dig the deeper. Evil person who masquerades as a victim-advocate and blogger, I cuddled our dog a! Make sure to teach Jesus and model that teaching churches how to respond to the letter, thankfully and! Men to keep their hands off women in the moment ( as she did with testimony... Satan to control your actions, WC represent him poorly thing as the Body of Christ in of! Demeaning to victims and I admit to being raised that public displays of affection adults! Did she tell her husband gregory of Nyssa was about as universalist as one can get I handled is lynne hybels still married to bill. My pray time this morning brought me directly to this passage in Luke 6. When will people get it that the church leaders highlighted here it made. Raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the same thing as the Body does put... With this privately and Hybels its star what does that have to do with testimony! It will protect it at all costs year for many years OT once and NT twice- Every.. Was despised and mocked and sent to the first paragraph that this was just the way that Jodi intends of! Do it my wife made me do it Alcohol made me do it my wife made do! Place to growth our sin matters suggests how clever and manipulative abusers are founding family kids using. After your church, WC as it might make some uncomfortable my earlier about...